Dtt torque converter problems
Hey everyone,
so i just finished my full billet 48 re trans. I put all dtt's products in there including: Billet flex w/triple disk converter, billet shafts, servos, rebuild kit. Since i had a trans go shift kit in my valve body already and wanted something with a little more kick, i went with a garmon tow valve body. All i can say is wow! It shifts so quick and firm. Thanks jeff at garmon trans! Ok so heres the bad news. I got it all together and runs great for the first 300 miles. I started having problems with a 1-2-1 shuffle shift, then a grinding noise when pressure was applied to reverse, sticking in gears and the torque converter hanging up when coming to a stop. So i dropped the pan and found nothing but metal shavings. So i talked to jeff at garmon and he said that the neck on the torque converter was too long thus making the converter jam into the pump. The billet flex plate didnt help since that is thicker too making it even farther into the pump stator. He said that he is rebuilding 5 trans a week because of these problems and is doing right by them. I asked dtt when starting this project if with a billet flex and with this converter do i need any kind of bellhousing shim and dtt said no! Now it has to come all apart again to clean all the metal out and probally new clutches. I broke the bank building this in the first place and now i have to get another rebuild and not have my only truck till who knows when. I tried calling dtt on thursday, friday and saturday with no resonse!!! Ive heard nothing but good things about dtt and so far it has been good. I just need them to do good and fix this quick! Ill let everyone know how this goes. My number is 2039961108. |
There will be a common theme here.
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For the record though...
Jeff Garmon doesn't use DTT converters... Garmon's is only using BRAND NEW built converters by Terry at Precision...Has been since Feb / March... with NO..Absolutely NO used parts inside like all the other brands... HE saw the writing on the wall, and made this decision as a Great business decision.. And in defense of DTT, they do not build their own converters either.... There is a common denominator here, but It's not for me to say... Like said above, Garmon is rebuilding a LOT of these and giving away his brand new converters to make the customers happy, along with eating all of the labor cost... Fact is, when companies like DTT outsource to another company to build their product, they are left with no choice but to stand behind it just like Jeff is for his previous builder of TC's.... The money being Lost here is simply depressing, but Jeff Making it Right is worth so much more to him... Glad to report though, out of 70+ of the Brand New converters Garmon's used in build since Feb. of this year (many were give a ways to make the customer happy) , NONE of them have had any of these issues... To the OP.... Sorry you had this issue but you're not alone... I'm sure DTT will help you out, just give them a chance to make it right.... If you need anything, please let me know... David |
just to correct myself, garmon said he was rebuilding other peoples trannys including dtt because of there bad torque converters. by no means am i putting down garmon's new converters, they are awesome quality.
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Thanks man! Hope you get it worked out soon! |
This should be a very interesting thread. :hornet::popcorn:
There seams to be a lot of overheating trannies and converter issues as of late, makes me wonder what's going on. Keep us posted. Good luck.....trans problems suck trust me. BOOM !!!! |
I am having this same issue as DTT. I am sure Stephan kondalay will fix you up! I talked to him the other day about this Issue and we will get this resolved. Send me the valve body I will get it rebuilt with new electronics.
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I'm sure kondalay will be in touch with you today. Both Garmon and DTT have amazing customer service, so you are in pretty good hands.
Hello Jeff, glad to see you on the CF. |
who makes DTT converters? I have heard that alot of the aftermarket converters are made by only a couple compaines.
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i got the same problems with dtt triple torque converter... about 200 miles and it failed... the tranny was professionally built by Jeff Garmon so no problem in the tranny for sure... very bad to here about this problems... mine is bigger cause i'm in italy ;-)
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i don't know yet, Jeff is calling Stephan for me, so i don't write them... as soon as Jeff will inform me i will know...
i hope they will warranty it... |
I just got back from a trade show, so sorry for taking so long getting back on this. I honestly have only seen 2 issues like this, so I want to give the converter company a chance to make it right with be before throwing anyone under the bus. I will get the customer a brand new TC regardless, even though I don't even know if it's the problem.
I always tell people that in our line of work, $hit happens sometimes. It's all in the way you look after it. I really want to see this TC as I haven't run into the heat issue, that Garmon had, so I would like to nip it in the butt early if it's going to be a issue. |
Hi Stephan, so you already spoke with Jeff about my converter ? what can we do ? if you hadn't can i ask you to call him so he can explain you better then me what happened ?
thanks, emanuele |
any updates on the converter front?
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i'm waiting ;-)
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This thread right here has single handedly made me want to work with dtt and garmon simply because they are obv trying there best to take care of this issue... I just wish there were more companies out there like these 2!! My hats off to you guys!
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And for those that didn't know... Garmon flew all the way to Italy to build and install ice.v8's tranny!
Check out ice.v8's thread on CompD Thanks Jeff from Italy !!!! - Competition Diesel.Com - Bringing The BEST Together . |
That says a lot about a person thats willing to do all that! He takes care of his customer and he must be good at what he does.
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To clear the air here for you guys that don't know. The converters in question here are built by Diesel Performance Converters and are built with the lock up clutch too tall. This means if you measure from the pump hub down to the splines comparing to a stock converter or a properly built aftermarket converter you will see the difference. The converter in Italy was not built by DPC and is some other builder of DTT. This warrantee issue for me has been huge! I don't owe any one but the customer on this forum an explanation! Having said that my converter problems are from last sept. thru feb. of 2011. I have had three to five per week for the last several months and will have more for a while. If these forums are meant for any thing it is to help inform of good and sometimes bad parts. Everything is not always fun in this buisness, but the truth is the truth and I am sorry if this offends anyone however I have slammed my own product by posting this! It is no different than choosing a piston for an engine that fails! Its your engine, or your trans that will fail by your choice of parts. I will be the first to admit I can screw things up as good as any one, but i am making them right one at a time!
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Jeff, that took a good man to admit! And even better one that you're taking care of all your customers even if the TC builder won't!
My hats off to ya Jeff! |
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If that statement right there doesn`t tell everyone on this forum what a stand up, honest guy you & one that stands behind his product goor or bad & is willing to make it right then nothing will convince them.:thumbsup: Congrats for standing tall when others turtle up & pretend like there isn`t an issue at all & continue to take peoples hard earned money. :banghead: |
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Jeff,
this is truely a stand up thing to do and what a way to run a small business, I applaud you. And to think that its not even your part that caused the failures in your transmissions but you take it upon yourself to warranty it. If my trans ever needs to be rebuilt or freshened up, it will be in your hands. |
I had hoped that it would not come to this, but Jeff Garmon's personal vendetta against me has left me no choice. Neither of these converters in question were built by me, however, I have done extensive research in to his claims, even speaking with his current torque converter builder, and have found no credit to this claim. The converters have been cut open and inspected by myself and others with no problems found. The common denominator in these failures are Garmon's Diesel valve bodies. I have had no problems with any other of my many reputable tranny dealers, nor do I expect to. The measurements that he is refering to have all been double checked and are completely in accordance to where they should be. I am sorry that it has had to come to this kind of thing, but this is the only time I will respond to Jeff or David. I am made aware constantly of the trash talking and quite frankly, I believe it is time to check your own product. I had my own Garmon's tranny checked by another source and was told it had led to all of my torque converter problems. I have been running the same converter in my race truck in the 9's with ZERO problems all season with someone else's tranny build. This is nothing more than a personal mission to harm my reputation and my business. Carry on......
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thanks David to link the post, it's also here on cummins forum ;-) i post all the pic in my build thread...
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I own pro street diesel and i build alot of transmissions and use phil taylors torque converter he builds at diesel performance converter i have had no problems with any trannys or his converter ever. Phil is a stand up guy and im aware of the issue garmon is claiming but its not true and i have spoken with other tranny shops that also use diesel performace converters products and no one is having trouble but garmon. So go figure the common in this is the same everywhere jeff go look in the mirror there is the problem. when u point a finger there is always more pointing back at yourself. |
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http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/...fballz/bus.jpg |
Outstanding how people are standing up to make things right, on a consumer I will be watching to see the outcome, this is the item I have been saving for - for over a year and still have 8 months until I can decide whos tranny package to go with. Big deal for broke folks like myself.
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LOL
On Snap! FOLKS of CF.... ^^^^^ These post ARE WHAT THE LOW ROAD LOOKS LIKE!!!! Jeff had taken the high road for 3-4 months now.. He has LOST over $50,000 dollars doing warranty work and standing behind his choice to use DPC.... It's a shame that former Friends (BOTH OF WHICH JEFF GARMON TRAINED!!!!!!!!!!!!! ) are now joining CF to Call the man the both learned from, an "Idiot".... The TRUTH can be seen here... But it if comes to it, Pics, Videos, Statements from customers of DPC that DID NOT have Garmon tranny's that FAILED due to the converter being built to tall, WILL BE and CAN BE POSTED..... Jeff was just hoping for that NOT to have to happen...All he's concerned about is MAKING THINGS RIGHT for his customers....END OF STORY!!! I challenge Anyone here to find A Post by Jeff Garmon ANYWHERE since the advent of the internet where he " Talked bad about " or " Slandered Anyone "!!! Not gonna find it cause thats not who Jeff is.... He's the guy that put Phil Taylor in Business by finding him the converter equipment, Helping him move it, Letting him setup his business INSIDE Jeff's shop and work RENT AND POWER BILL FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!Jeff also the guy that Let Darren (Quarterman) practically LIVE with him Weeks at a time for Years while Jeff TRAINED him on how to do the very stuff he's doing now on his own... Now these people want to come here and call that man (their trainer in Diesel motorsports) an Idiot and act like he doesn't know what he's doing???????? Fact is, Jeff developed the VB tech and parts / springs that he uses and SHARED IT WITH PHIL AND DARREN.... and YES!!! These are the VB's that DPC and ProStreet Diesel have used for YEARS.... Once again Folks..... The LOW ROAD has just been traveled by Phil , Darren, and whoever that other Goon is, to COVER UP what could have been a simple fix.. Had the "Builder" choosen to do what was RIGHT.... Now it's just mud slinging to try to Discredit the VERY MAN they BOTH learned from..... They are like the Democrats of the Diesel World!! Trying to Blame EVERYONE but themselves!!!! LOL Fact is...Until this very moment, I still considered these folks my "Friends".... Truly Depressing.... . |
And Phil...
Do you really want Terry, Sam, and many others (remaining nameless for Now) to REALLY post up what they know and were told by you....or share pics of what they found inside the their TC's.. ? Do we REALLY need to show the measurements of Several other brands agains't your? Do you REALLY want the pics and vids posted of the metal shavings, ground off metal, EXTREMELY heated parts, MELTED filters, etc that could ONLY come from the converter being "Built" too tall and cutting off the fluid transfer?? Just man up Phil.... Warranty your products, make them right, reimburse Jeff for the FREE converters he's had to give away....Then maybe you'll be able to hold your head high again... Integrity ........... Do you Still have it Phil?? |
is these happening in any 2nd gen trannys?
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Wow!!
And "BY DEFAULT" Looks like I've lost another "Friend"... Will ^^ Here has obviously choosen side and tolk me that I can "Kiss his A$$" when he and I have NEVER had a cross word between us... This folks is what LACK of Integrity looks like!! But hey, I see this kinda thing on a daily bases... I lock them up all day long.... Oh Well!! Will.... I don't doubt you have DPC's that work great...IN FACT!!!! My old DPC converter worked GREAT TOO!!! SEE^^ This is what Integrity looks like!! I'm Admitting that Had a DPC for a long while and it worked GREAT!! I've NEVER doubted Phil's work....But I also know People are human...People make mistakes.... He had a manufacturing flaw that cause seveal incidents and INSTEAD of saying, " HEY FOLKS... LOOKS LIKE I GOOFED UP A BIT AND I NEED TO MAKE IT RIGHT "..... He chose to tell Jeff, Sam, and Several others to go Pound Sand!!!! Tell me this guy...! Why would Jeff JUST NOW bring this out?? Why?? Phil's been out of Jeff's shop for MONTHS... Jeff's been Giving away the Brand NEW converters for MONTHS! Losing Thousands and Thousands of dollars! Jeff told everyone and me.... "I do NOT want to throw Phil under the bus" But when Phil kept refusing and refusing to make things right and warranty his product, Jeff was left with NO CHOICE!! Anyone with half a brain can figure this one out.... It didn't have to come to this..... But now we at least now what side you're on too... |
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And Will.... A "Warranty" is ONLY as good and the so called "MAN" standing behind it!!!! Jeff's over $50,000 deep into his "WARRANTY" because of Phil!!!!! How much has Phil lost????? Thats okay Will.....They know!!! |
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:hehe: Now you're making stuff up about me to make Phil (DPC) look better?? lol Man.. You KNOW you , well Phill, his wife, and Darren (and I guess all you folks) don't want that stuff to come out!!! Surely you don't... That will ONLY make them look even worse man!! Why do you think Jeff kicked them OFF his bus and ex-friended them right there on the spot?? Let that sleeping dog ly man... As for your comments about me....:rof I'm 40 years old and have my record that speaks for itself. Phil , Darren, Christen, Micky, would have ALL told you the same thing about me too... UNTIL NOW.. I'm guilty by association ONLY... They hate me now simply because I'm standing for whats RIGHT!! Nothing more! Phil even had me trying to sell converters for him after he left Jeff's shop... Darren called and talked to me for 2 hours about him still wanting to be friends with Jeff.. So did Phil! My ex-financee even tried to tell lies on me to get Phil, Darren, and Christen not to like me, but we got passed that too.... They were my friends cause they KNOW what kind of a person I am... !! Try again Junior! |
AND!!!!!!!!!!
If its a VB problem!! LOL ( I still laugh at ya'll using that excuse!! ) THEN WHY HAVE 70 OF THE BRAND NEW (PRECISION BUILT BY TERRY) CONVERTERS BEEN PUT IN AND NO FAILURES AND NORMAL TEMPATURES?????????????? HMMMM?? You can NOT argue the mechanics of the Tranny and what that "TOO TALL" converter(s) are doing!!! So STOP IT!!!!!!!! It's ONLY making ya'll look Worse!! To quote Jerry McQuire.... " Help ME Help YOU!!! " Quite while you still can! |
Swole I have always liked u but I cannot stand by and just let u tell lies about me or dpc
Jeff was a good friend to me and taught me alot and I always supported him even when I was doing my own stuff my own engine and tranny builds for over two years jeff got in the tranny business because of me and my encouragement and we helped each other become successful by sharing information and no jeff did not developed the valve body stuff we use alone we spent many hours on the phone and trying and testing stuff but obviously he has changed something because I have no trannys to warranty and I bought alot of converters from dpc from sept till current. I have not taken the low rode nor has dpc u cannot warranty anything if your not asked Phil is a good man and he was called out y'all took the low road. Jeff ended both friendships over ego issues not us my heart is pure I was a good friend u cannot promote yourself by blaming everyone else for your own problem that road is dead end most of what u said is a lie. Was jeff instrumental in my life yes but I returned that in his and so did Phil Taylor he changed that not us quit this u know better |
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I agree Darren! I've Always liked you and Phil as well... I still Do! But Right is Right and Wrong is Wrong man.... I know you and Jeff were friends and shared info for YEARS.. Phill too! I can't for the life of me figure out why it came to this when we ALL know that a VB can NOT cause the type of damage and lack of fluid transfer that is caused from the issue Jeff has discribed!! I've been running Jeff's VB's through Every new update that you and he came up with....Mine's NEVER done this... I ran Phil's Converter when he rebuilt my old SC converter and it worked GREAT!! So obviously it IS / WAS a simple mistake that he could have just admitted was a fluke thing for a short time period... Man'd up and Stood behind... I can except someone making a mistake and so could you and so could Jeff... But when it's hidden, lied about, covered up, and NOW Pushed off on someone else... Thats just simply WRONG!! I've SEEN the measurements... I SEEN the damage... I've SEEN what the tall converter did to the metal at the pump area... I've GOT video of Jeff having to take a converter off a tranny with a CHAIN and a FORKLIFT because of the damage the heat and flared metal did!! Jeff, Sam, and many others I've spoken with ( that will surface is need be ) have seen what the issue is... Please Darren.... I know you wanna back your friend.... But I tell you what... Drive up here and lets ALL look at this together... ! We can SHOW it to Ya'll !! But when someone just tells you to "Go pound Sand" when you try to tell them theres an issue, What Else can you do man??? I hate that I've lost You and Phil ( and I guess the whole gang down south ) as Friends... But doesn't it make sense that I wouldn't have gotten involved if I didn't think it was worth it?? I'm in the Business for standing up for whats RIGHT... I have NO choice! I took that Pledge when I graduated and got my badge... I will stand up for what RIGHT even if you guys Don't want to be my "Friend" any longer.... David |
Im gonna say one more thing the converters this thread got started for were not built by diesel performance converters so end of discussion
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I dont want to affend anyone here(which is probably impossible), but I know the whole story isn't being told here. I wouldnt even have a dog in this fight or any concern of whats going on if I havent had these trannies coming to my shop to be fixed. I have tried to look past it after the first incident, but I'm running out of cover stories for the failures. I have now had 8 trannies from jeff's shop come to me because they failed prematurely and warranty was denied. All 8 had valve body issues and several used/worn out/remachined parts in the trannies. Not one was from a converter issue. There may be some converter issues going on that i havent seen, but none of these were converter related. And I know of 11 more units at different shops with the same issues as the ones I had come in. Those shop owners can speak up if they want. I consider Swole and Jeff my friends, as I do Phil and Darren. I dont know anyone one of them any better than the other, so I am in no way picking sides. I just think they readers of this thread deserve to know the whole truth.
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The way I read the start of this thread is that there was an issue with the dtt converter and while the OP was in conversation with Jeff it was brought to the OP's attention that both DTT and Garmon were having the same converter issues. Jeff later chimed in stating that both companies having this issue were using DPC converters. At least that's how I read it....:confused013: |
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Just outta curiosity where are these shops located ? has any of the VB issues ever been brought to Jeff's attention? :confused013: As I read all of this it seems to me there is a lot more going on behind the scenes than any of us will ever know. For the health of the thread it would be nice if the topic could be kept to the original issue at hand otherwise a mod may yank this thread if it gets off track then everyone loses. |
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:hehe: First off...WHO are you? Whats your shop name? Post pics... Shall we compare? Post names of the customer SUPPOSEDLY denied!! lol Where are these people?? PLEASE get them in here! Post your real name! No hiding behind the keyboard.. Is This JAMES!!!???? or the other guy from Blacks?? Come on man!! LOL We've ALL been through this with you man...On this VERY forum!! ANYBODY can say what you just did man... Show Proof! Next thing we know Ty will be in here bashing Jeff too even though his tranny lasted for over 200 passes... They Jeff fired him... SO, I expect that You guys are pulling out ALL the stops...:rof I Guess the pics...Vids...and the statements from all those having this Converter ISSUE will just have to be posted.... You guys are ONLY hurting DPC worse..... |
OK...Also..
WHY?? Just WHY?? Would Jeff Garmon have a "SO CALLED" VB issue that's supposed causing ALL these issues, THEN get on a public forum after 3-4 months of GIVING OVER $50,000 OF PRODUCT AND LABOR AWAY and post up that is someone else's fault?? If these "Claims" about Jeff are really true, then Where are all the people?? Post's? Thread's?? This is almost comical but me losing friends over this is NOT a laughing matter... But once again, I say it again...Right is Right and Wrong is Wrong... |
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Very good point! I'm TOTALLY surprised they've not killed it already.... (Thanks mods for letting it stay for now ! ) The DTT converter in question will probably NEVER be told truthfully about the builder.. I like DTT and I understand they are going to help this guy out..But I also know how things happen in business..DAMAGE CONTROL... We've all be witness to Damage Control attempts in this thread many times... All Jeff did was take TOTAL RESPONSIBLITY FOR HIS CHOICE TO USE DPC's and the possible issue that his customers may come across... Never once did Jeff sling mud... That was done by ..Well, You all saw... I sure hope the OP and the others that I know are watching will get there converters warrantied...That will be "Making it Right"... |
I am sure this will iron out! The Issue will show itself, just sit tight these problems will surface with and without my valve body or transmission however too close to the engine I mount them! Sorry for the Upset I just figured the forum should be warned. I have had a lot of customer referals from this site!
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I don't know anyone in this thread or have an auto so I'm not talking for one "side" or the other but I have 2 questions... if trannies in the US with dpc tc's r failing and 1 in italy failed withOUT a dpc tc woouldnt the common denominator be something other than the dpc tc? As for the other side of the story, y is garmons valve body not screwing up other tc's than the dpc? Just 2 questions for both sides of the spectrumn
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When its built to tall it causes the overheating issue. I'll let Jeff describe the exact problem if he wants. But the converter failing in Italy was different.. Jeff even admitted that.. Two separate things.. |
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If the root of the problem is being to tall I guess I just labeled it as tc failure, make sense? 6 one way half a dozen the other kinda thing. Knowing what I meant be tc "failure now, if u re-read my question does it make more sense?
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http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q...00615-1235.jpg
This was after 5 passes on a fresh tranny from Garmon's. Also twisted input shaft and broke belleville spring. This was at 550hp. |
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LOL
The old "James" BS coming back out! Okay.. I see how this is being played... |
http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q...rf/photo-1.jpg
This is comparing front drum clutches(bottom) out of a Garmon tranny with 13k miles on it in a 500 hp street truck vs clutches(top) out of my 4wd truck with 220 passes at 700-890hp. |
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Oh yea, the best part. Only two of the 8 trannies that have been here had updated seals in the front drum. The other 6 had the old original narraow seals. Which probably contributed to the premature failure of the front clutch pack. |
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The alcohol and drugs are posting now! LOL WTH was that post supposed to say? lol |
Ah!! Ashley!!
Wow! Aron leaves ya and all the sudden your back on the "Lets bash and try to ruin my competiton" game.. Lies want make you better than Garmon man! Why do you keep trying? |
I'll give you one thing Swole. You are a loyal sob. LOL. But you should have known this stuff was gonna surface at some point. Just a heads up, there are more people waiting to post the same kind of things.
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I will tell u what swole I wanna do this I will u don't scare me u make accusations about me I will not put up with it I can drive don't mess with me I have done nothing to u but u don't know me ing stop u need to back off
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Didnt know Aron left me. Or did I? LOL. Speaking of Loyalty and telling Lies, you still running that PPE and lying to Bob and Marco about it?
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Threats on an open forum could mean Felony... Not sure what your trying to say, but I'll let you sleep on it and think twice! |
Here is an idea... Gather all pertinent information and CALL or EMAIL one another to conduct a successful root cause failure analysis and IDENDITIFY the failure(s), CREATE solution(s) and IMPLEMENT the fix(es). NOT to place blame on a person/shop.
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No Sir! Version 1.5 is what broke my input 3 days ago! But its great to have the two for comparison sake.. SSR is deffinately stronger! Nice try though! The fact I still have a PPE and my SSR is no secret! LOL Boy... I don't even work for Jeff .. I'm just a broke a$$ cop.. And all you folks are coming after me! LOL Does this really make the dpc converter issue go away?? Click your heels together and say, " Theres no place like home"!! LMAO!!!! |
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I'm way too slow to be considered competition. But thatnks for the complement. i am faster than you at a fraction of the cost though. So what is it gonna be PPE or Smarty? |
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One on the left USED to be Miller Light Blue.. Know what kinda heat it takes inside to make it Black like Garmons Brand new covertors???
Hmmm! http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/0fd1d7de.jpg |
Any comments on the pictures you asked for?
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Are there any pics of side by side measurement of the hubs? Not saying it couldnt happen, but I cant understad how the hub could be too long if its a stock hub. Or is it an aftermarket hub?
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All the metal inside used to shiny silver...
Wonder what kinda heat it takes to cause a blue coverter to turn black and the silver metal to be Bronze??? Hmmmmm http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/c3e1d793.jpg And melt plastic??? Hmmm http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/c5d19317.jpg http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/1546c554.jpg |
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Again, any comment on the pics? And are there any side by side measurements on the converter hubs to show the difference in length?
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Lets see... Pulled tye interior, full cage, suspension mods, bigger injectors, lots less weight in general, Nitrous, drag radials, etc... And you BARELY are a bit faster than my COMPLETLEY STOCK WEIGHT AND SUSPENSIONED daily driver on All Terrain tires truck on Fuel only!! LOL Okay,,, Whats ever makes ya feel better!! And I believe I'll keep Both!! My PPE AND MY SMARTY SSR!! Why?? Cause I can!! And comparing both when they both run great Is HOW YOU LEARN!! SSR Is getting better all the time! Its been awesome watching it get better than the PPE and having the knowledge of why and how.. Thats the kinda info Marco like to hear and use.. What were trying to achieve?? lol Dude! Grow up a tad... |
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The faster part was just a joke, although it was faster at full weight(plus cage), street tires, fuel, single turbo and cp3. Lighten up a little.
As far as the Smarty/PPE part, well I believe loyoalty to those who help you are MOST important. You were the one that told us to keep the PPE thing under our hats. If it helps Marco in some way, great. If not, shame on you for being unloyal to someone who has helped you so much. The above stuff is BS anyway. I, along with many others, want to hear an explanation on the pics that were posted. How do you explain that detent ball in a $7000 tranny? Why would a $7000 tranny get toasted in such a way with only 13k miles and moderate hp? Why was a beaten, worn out sun gear reused? Why were the front drum seals not updated? Why no billet servo cover or acumulator piston? For 7 G's, you'd think these things would be addressed. And can we see a side by side comparison of the tc hubs showing one longer than the other. |
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Lets RECAP here folks!!!
Pay close attention here.... Jeff makes a "Public Service Announecment" to call out his Own choice to use dpc and to make his customers aware of the issue and that he was maning up and taking care of them EVEN though the "Builder" was refusing to warranty them or admit he had an issue.... Phil joins , comes in to defend himself... Well , that's to be expected...... THEN... His whole GANG comes in here to "defend" him and try to Slander Jeff and ME! THEN... a shop owner in GA that's always been in direct competition with Jeff for business comes in here bringing up Crap thats already Argued and Debunked over a YEAR ago.... Ask yourself this...Why would Ashley Black come in here AFTER HAVING APOLOGIZED to Jeff for all the previous slander and TOLD us that James screwed his own chit up... And said that he didn't have anything to Do with James anymore....Ashley played NIce for a year... NOW, totally unsolicited and for NO good reason he comes in here posting pics and trying to Discredit Jeff.... How much are they Paying you Ashely? Nevermind what He is saying about Me! LOL I am NOT Paid nor am I "Sponsored" by Smarty!! LOL Marco became a friend and Helped me out with my injectors..TOTALLY unsolicited! I am NOT paid nor do I "Work" for Jeff... I help Jeff field calls and make contacts because he has So Little time, yet still helps me with my truck and lets me use his shop... IT'S CALLED "TRUE FRIENDSHIP".... ^^ Something you obviously Know NOTHING about man! As for me Owning both a PPE and my Smarty SSR... They are MINE and I can use them and Test them against each other ANY way I see fit! Now that the version's of SSR are out and some of the issues I was having were taken care of (same as everyone else trying it), The SSR is becoming better and better! Is is now way STRONGER (it seems) than the PPE... I've NOT yet been able to get on the Dyno... Marco CLEARLY stated that the SSR NEEDED to be Dynoed to get the most and Safest power out of... Me running my PPE sometimes is simply because I HAVE dynoed it and KNOW Exactly what it does... It's a more conservative box..So I run it to be sometimes to make sure things are SAFE ....UNTIL I can Dyno my SSR and get it JUST right... So you not telling the whole story is Obviously an attempt to Slander me too! Yet I have NOTHING to hide... Who has EVER been as upfront and honest and Sharing of info that has happened to me and my truck... EVERYTHING that's ever happened (Good and BAD) to my truck, I have SHARED Willingly with the Forums.... So trying to paint me as the underhanded liar just makes YOU look like the deceatful LIAR and poor person you are..... Any smart person that's had my luck would WANT to be safe with they're motor...Marco told me NOT To go too far without dynoing...So I didn't... Now you're Not only insulting me, but insulting Marco!! Who totally understands me being cautious with my truck... Ashely, YOU rarely share anything about your troubles! Your choice of tuners and brands of parts that you get. Why is that? Why aren't you as Forthcoming with Info like I am?? As the good Lord said, "REMOVE THE LOG FROM YOUR OWN EYE, BEFORE ATTEMPTING TO REMOVE THE SPEC FROM MINE"!! Isnt it AMAZING how the REAL issue here is being "Masked" by all these Attempts to get at me now...! True Colors FOLKS!! That's what's being seen here by Ashley, the no tooth goon, Darren who Publicly THREATEN a police officer, and Will Jones with childish accusations and telling me to "Kiss his A**".... Integrity !!! These folks ^^ Obviously don't have it... But they think since they have money, they can some how Buy it!....... Sorry to bust your bubble guys... INTEGRITY can't be bought! |
Swole, I love how you respond to everyones posts. You turn it around in your response and try to make it so that other people that read this think you are in the right. Like that comment on darrens response
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Now as the converter issue goes, ashley keeps asking for comments on the pictures and a side by side length comparison but still doesnt have one. Jeff says he is doing 5 rebuilds a week because of DPC converters built between Sept of 2010 and Feb of 2011. I have 2 of those converters in 2 48res and dont have ANY problems, granted it is with Pro Street Diesel valve bodies. Darren hasnt had to warranty ANY of phils converters. Just stating the facts here. At first when noone was on here to defend DPC it all was going as planned wasnt it? Now people are coming out of the woodworks to defend the person who truly is right here and who is wrong. Now lets get the REAL facts in this story and give these cummins forum readers the whole true story. |
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well we started getting some pics. of stuff but then the personal attacks crept back in.....
who gives a rats azz who`s truck is faster or who is running what programmer blah blah blah.... the thread is about 1 thing & 1 thing only..... converters or now even valve bodies are in question. Forum members both here & compd deserve to get the information so that they as an idividual can decide who is right & who is wrong, as fun as they are to read ( the attacks) it adds nothing to the thread. |
Will,
Darren was infact the FIRST person that kept having to send converters back to Phil in the begining!! Or did Darren not share that with you?? Did Phil and Darren not tell you that this isn't the first time this has ever happened?? You can "SPIN" this anyway you want to make ME LOOK BAD... I don't care.. I'm just a broke a** Nobody in the industry... I don't have a business to protect. I know who I am and what I'm about.. So does Phil, Darren, and Ashley! They are All dumping me as a friend to protect their own... But thats fine by me... They obvioulsy weren't true friends anyway... As for your comments Junior.... I would expect nothing less from you! My record speaks for itself.. I dont need your stamp of approval... |
wow the thread is getting a bad way... no more words about my and dodgemega07 converter (DTT) failure... i will pm Stephan to hear from him about the warranty...
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Facts Only now!
Okay... No More BS and personal attacks!
I apologize for my part in letting these guys Bait me into all these "OTHER" topics and personal slamming... Jeff's probably mad at me now for going off but He continues to stay on the High Road.. But Facts are Facts... The PICS and PROOF will come out... The Measurements against other converters Will be posted... The "Damage Control" attempted to be done Behind the scene as we speak, Will come out as well... I'll let the actual parties involved show their cards when its time... In the mean time... If you guys wanna keep taking pot shots at me and my character to make yourselves feel better... Have at it... That kinda crap doesn't make anyone look Good.... Especially when you post things you have no clue about and only "hear say".... Too be continued... |
This has really been a eye opening thread, to say the least. I said I would not respond to this again, but want to clear some things up for any of my customers. All of the converters that come out of my shop are covered by warranty. There is not another customer, other than Jeff, that will tell you different. All converters are measured, to spec, before they leave my shop. Any knowledgeable tranny installer would catch any height issue at install. This is common knowledge. I have not changed anything in the set up of these converters and the kits I use have not had any changes made either. I have not had one other tranny shop or customer come to me with this height problem. I never recieved the first phone call from Garmon's Diesel about any of these problems. I can not warranty something that I am not contacted about. I did recieve one of these "faulty, too tall, converters" in to my shop from one of Jeff's customers last week. The converter was in perfect condition and looked brand new. This could have been handled in a business manner, but instead, was used as a public way to try to hurt my personal character and my company. I have had several of my customers and tranny shops call and offer to get on here in my defense, but I asked them not to. I do not want any of my customers to have to endure any personal attacks. If anyone has any issues of any kind with my product or any questions give me a call. The personal attacks can continue, but will not be responded to. I do not operate my business that way and will not participate in a pissing match on a public forum.
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EVERYONE...
Please keep you eyes peeled in the coming weeks.... All Forums included, as I'm sure this one my be closed or deleted soon... Draw your OWN conclusions... Jeff will post the pics, measurements, and instructions on HOW to do this yourself in the event you have to have your converter out for an issue... Truth is coming... Just be patient.. |
Swole that's a bold face lie the converter u r refering too was built by precision it was a 68rfe convertPhil helped me figure it out. Don't lie about my business u r not in my life u don't kmow anything about it. Let Me reiterate the two converters im question here were not diesel performance converter products end of discussion people read between the line please
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Swole, I dont know why you keep trying to put me and Jeff together as "competitors". He is south of Atlanta and I am north of Atlanta. I'm sure Very seldomly do locals find theirselves trying to decide to go north or south. I have even recommended(for anything but trannies that is) Jeff to people when I dont have the time to get them scheduled in. And you are right, this same thing did go on over James's tranny deal. But two things you are wrong about. One, it never got resolved. You guys never posted an explanation for the problems found with it. You dodged ever question just as you are now while trying to dazzle them with your law enforcement job. You can only whip them with that golden tongue for so long. Second, I NEVER said James tore that tranny up himself. He tore a lot of other crap up, but not that tranny. It was trash the day he picked it up. I did apologize to Jeff just so we could put it behind us and move on as it was apparent there would never be anything done about it.
And as far as protecting my business, I have no reason to try and protect it. Its not in any danger. I have no products out there that are failing left and right. We've been in the same place for 42 years and we'll be here another 42. I dont really know whats up with Aron right now, but I think he will vouch for the way we do business. The most important part of a business is the customer. Thats the only reason anyone has business. And I do what I can to take care of them. That is the #1 reason I entered this thread. This kind of thing has got to stop. If Jeff has started fixing his tranny mistakes, then I applaud him. Nothing I have posted is any way a personal attack on Jeff, but an AGAIN an effort to get peope what they paid for. I think if it weren't for your presence here, 99% of the sh*t that gets started would never happen. So are you gonna keep rambling about stupid crap or are you gonna SHOW the difference in hub lenght with a picture. You asked for my picutres, so now are you gonna give these people an explanation for a $7,000 tranny having the old seals in the front drum? Are you gonna explain to them why a detent ball in that shape could slip through the build process on a $7,000 tranny? Can you explain why a clutch pack looks like that with only 13k miles on it? You can keep dodging them, but I'm gonna keep asking. |
Ok Darren....What ever you say man... lol
I don't want to have to worry about you threatening me again... LOL Ashley... I'm done with the personal attacks... But your father's business of 42 years probably does have good name but it's not been about diesel performance... That came along with you just a few years ago... The pics of the converter build height, the issue, the actual problem will be shown.. But Many I hope.. Not just Jeff..But the customers having this issue that Don't even have (or didn't have at the time) a Garmon tranny..... All the "Spinnig" is only confusing everyone reading it...... Fact is (Back to the actual) issue... .When the pics are posted... Jeff will invite anyone that's wants to ( you included ) to come measure it for yourself at his shop... Measure Seveal of them in fact... Folks in other states with this issue... Measure yours...Take pics...Post pics... Don't take my word for it any longer... It WILL be seen.. |
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Wether this converter is a converter I currently sell or have sold in the past, this measurement is from the top of the hub to the input slines.
If this measurement is different, it is Bad. And aggravated greatly by a thicker billet flex plate which spaces a converter Even closer to the tranny. When the hub touches the transmission pump, it rubs generating metal shavings causing VB failures / electronics failures and causes plungers to stick. And it causes Overheating issues... This is Not a lock up issue. This is a lock up Off rubbing issue. Most of the failures are happening in stock (or close to stock) trucks that are driven daily / towing daily. Pleasue check ANY converter / converter's companies product just like this and you'll see for yourself if it is too tall or not. Factory measurement (stock converter) http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/a...l/b2a98e40.jpg Wrong (too tall) measurement http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/a...l/ed101283.jpg Stator support the way it should be http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/a...l/4b67eea6.jpg Stator support being rubbed / ground off due to the too tall converter. http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/a...l/435d46ea.jpg In ending I'm sure this will bring on more warranty issues and if so, please get them to me and I will take care of it. . |
I was going to stay out of this, as I know, or have dealt with, most of the parties involved in this either directly or indirectly to some degree.
You know what the true shame of this entire situation really is?....EVERYONE involved here used to be tight. Used to work together, hang together, race together, make money together. USED to be friends. THIS is why you don't do business with friends and family. When the $ gets in the way, the back stabbing and name calling starts. And that's garbage because there are good folks on both sides here that are getting drug through the mud. If the number of brains that being brought into question here actually got together to figure out the REAL issue here and implement a fix for it, you know what would happen?....EVERYBODY WOULD BE MAKING MONEY AND CUSTOMERS WOULD GET A BETTER PRODUCT! If there is ANYONE that is IN this thread or READING it that doesn't understand that failures happen when you push things as hard as some of us push these things, YOU'RE BLIND! Does crap happen? Damn right it does! Does crap break? Damn right it does! Do mistakes happen? Damn right they do! There isn't a SINGLE INDIVIDUAL IN THIS ENTIRE THREAD that knew it all when they started! You know how you learned?....YOU BROKE STUFF! You found the weak points and made it better......then you found the next weak point. Push the limits of the design and it happens. All the BS name calling and character questioning only does one thing for folks reading this.....makes them go to someone else. It sounds like some teenage, high school drama crap. This is the problem with the diesel community as a whole. In NO OTHER motorsport do you see so much back stabbing, name calling, character questioning, internet mouth running BS as you do WITHIN THIS COMMUNITY! And much of it stemming from the people that are the BIGG"er" names within the community. All of this crap overflows into everything else. This is why we can't even get a decent event with decent sponsorship at decent locations.....NOBODY CAN SET ASIDE DIFFERENCES LONG ENOUGH TO COME UP WITH A SOLUTION! Both sides, cut the juvenile BS and either post FACTS, PICTURES and / or PROOF or just STFU! If ya don't like what I said, well, I don't give a rats azz. I'm just telling you what I see from the outside and what I see as someone looking in. But what do I know. |
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Actually my dads shop is next door. Mine was built 12 years ago. Have you came up with any good answers to those questions yet? |
Jeff, how would someone know if they had a DPC or Precision convertor with one of your transmissions? I purchased my transmission from you at the end of January being of February of 2011.
Patrick. |
You would have to drop the pan and look for fine steel shavings. Not brass. If you have this then you may have a problem.
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Patrick, you can also open the inspection cover on the bottom of the bell housing and look at the color of the converter.
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Sorry I guess I didn't word my question right. I knew you could tell by the color. What color is the DPC convertor and what color is the precision convertor?
Patrick. |
If it's one of Phil's it'll be blue, if it's one Jeff's new ones, it'll be black.
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DPC converter is blue and my new precision built converter is black
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THAT IS AWESOME!!!!!:hehe:
Can I PLEASE use that as my Avatar??? :hehe: Seriously!! That's is freakin Hliarious!!! Good Job...!:thumbsup: Now If I only Really knew who I was Posting too.... Hmmm.. Keyboard bada$$... Are ya?? Come on man..Post up your real name and who you are.. So I can at least know who that truly thank for making my day and litterally making me Laugh out Loud!!! Quote:
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THERE!!!!
I LOVE my new Avatar!! Thank you Mr. Keyboard man....!!! |
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I may be a little late here as I think the pics now say it all. But I am still going to share my take on this anyway.
As a paying customer of both Garmon's Diesel Performance and DPC and an associate/friend of both parties involved in this discussion I have been privy to everything that has been going on for months and will clearly share this whole story with everyone since it seems to have gotten off track and out of hand. I am not going to share who I am because I do have a business and personal involvment with both parties. But reguardless, here are the facts. The company DPC was created by Jeff Garmon trying to help a friend. A converter shop became available to Jeff and due to Phils construction business failing in this poor economy, Jeff decided to help Phil get into the diesel industry. Jeff agreed to help Phil aquire, move and set up the converter shop inside the Garmons Diesel Performance facility. DPC was created and owned and operated by Phil for a couple of years there. Jeff at that time was there to help Phil learn to build converters as well as fix any problems that arose. Several months back there started to be some issues with Phils converters being built way too tall that were caught on the transmission dyno prior to installation. This issue seemed to have been addressed and fixed at that time. Subsequently, even though this has no bearing on the business at hand here, there was a personal issue involving both Phil (DPC) and Darren (Quarterman) that caused Jeff to evict Phil from his shop. Phil moved his shop to a location closer to his home and continued to operate DPC. Jeff continued to buy conveters from Phil even after the personal issues as he stated he did not ever involve personal issues in his business and at this time felt like Phil was building a good product. Shortly after Phils move the issue of the height surfaced again. Seems that even though the original problem seemed to be fixed it still was not correct but not bad enough to catch with just a dyno run. It was again pointed out to Phil by Jeff as well as another shop owner that was buying his product. Phil refused to admit any wrong doing (as we are all capable of screwing things up sometimes) and made it clear that he would not change anything about his build. So, as the failed converter problems started to roll in this left Jeff no choice but to relplace every failed converter with a different correctly built product. It would do absolutely no good to replace it with a converter (even if Phil had agreed to warranty it) with another one built the same way. During this time Jeff was working with Terry at Precision to develop a product that was a completely new converter. This is the converter that Jeff uses today and it what he began relplacing the bad DPC converters with at his own expense. Because Jeff is not the type of person to make a scene about anything he kept this whole thing quiet and simply took the responsibility to fix each and every truck that came in with this issue as there was no other choice. When he began getting phone calls from other consumers (not his customers) that had bought this product and experienced these same issues he became aware that Phil was now building these same too tall converters for other companies. Like DTT. He was also scolded by other consumers that bought a DPC converter because he was told the reason they chose this converter is because it was used and recommended by him. This is where it was obvious that this was going to get out of hand. It was confirmed that Phil had still not changed his build and was manufacturing these converters the same way. Jeff decided, as a service to his customers and even those that are not but considering buying a DPC converter, he needed to make a statement about what was going on because so many people still affiliated him with DPC. I personally saw him and another shop owner try numerous times to show Phil what this problem was but for some reason he refused to acknowledge that there was one. Jeff at one time did support Phil and his product. And I feel like he still would today if the problem had been corrected. But that simply was not happening and he had to make a decision that was right for his business. I have spent a lot of time with both of these guys and have highly respected both of them. I honestly would have never imagined that Phil would have handled things the way he has. I personally thought they both offered an excellent product. And, I still do think Phil can offer that again if he fixes what is being done wrong. But ignoring an obvious problem is not fair to any of us that spend our hard earned money on these products. As far as it being stated this is a vlave body issue. I think anyone with any mechanical ability will clearly know that the metal being generated by the converter rubbing has nothing to do with a valve body. It may cause a valve body to fail but valve bodies do not generate metal themselves. And changing the converter to the new precision built converter has stopped the failure with the same valve body being used. Maybe that is another issure for another thread. Not this one IMO. I hope that this has put some insight and facts out there for everyone and not just the name calling and BS it has become. This was intended to help the consumer and hopefully open some eyes to stop a problem that is very expensive for the consumer. Jeff has been gracious enough to do a complete warranty because of this problem. I'm sure there are other tranny builders that will not. Not to mention the individuals that are just buying the converter and installing it themselves. This problem causes the transmission to have to be rebuilt with all new electronics and internal parts. That get's very expensive. Phil, I hope you can clearly see the problem now and correct it and start building a good product again as I personally know you are capable of doing. And Jeff, I wish you luck with all of this warranty. Maybe the two of you will get together and work this problem out as a team. That would be an admiral thing in my opinion. |
Any of you guys ever heard of or used midwest converters, or midwest race converter?
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That one is Even BETTER!!!! LMAO!!
Dude! You are my HERO!! I may have to change THIS to my avatar now... Thank You! |
As a mutual friend to both these guys....the previous life story would be great, if it were all true and not coming from someone that is actually not a friend of the Taylors. If they were, they would know the true story. I find it very sad the lengths that are being gone to to hurt Phil and it is definitely making me ask alot of questions to myself about how I have always viewed the people involved. Anyone close to these people can easily figure out who this person is. It is a wolf in sheep's clothing that has caused alot of the problems at hand here. I would suggest as a buyer from both these companies that you choose as a buyer to contact these guys and let them speak for themselves. You wont get a true story any other way. Where the story was a great read, it was in no way heartfelt or out of concern for DPC. It is even worse than the personal attacks and name calling. A true friend doesn't go on the internet and air a life history of 2 of their buddies. Good try though. I frankly don't believe anything in this thread and am disgusted at the personal attacks going out to a very good guy to deal with. I have never had a problem with DPC product and have put the Tc's in over 50 trucks. I hope that anyone reading this will base their opinions on what is obviously going on between the lines.
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Anybody want a taco?
--- - Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk...... That is why my replies are short and my spelling sucks. |
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I'm on a boat Beoyotch!
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I hope the OP gets the answer he is looking for. And tacos do sound good btw. |
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Just to clear a few things up here...I'm not a dumbass when it comes to R&R of a transmission...I've done several hundred now in the past two years..i do this everyday..Your not going to notice a height issue just by looking at the converter sitting on a table.When you buy a new converter you shouldn't have to worry about it being to tall or anything else.It should be right the first time.I consider myself pretty damn good at R&R on a transmission...O WAIT i know what my problem is now..I use billet flexplates sometimes your not supposed to use them:hehe: |
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Im diggin the simpsons cop theme
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guys try to keep this clean, keep it strictly to the pics and numbers. i just pulled the tranny out and to my transmission shop for a teardown analysis to make sure the converter was the only problem. the metal pieces in the pain has to come from somewhere, tommorrow i should know. thanks for the pics guys.
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Me Too !! I Love It! Whoever it is must have seen my Youtube channel, cause that simpson dude IS my avatar on youtube and has been since it started.. :) |
Its on here to but wanted to share this link as well
Transmission recall - Competition Diesel.Com - Bringing The BEST Together |
Just curious if the dimension from the flexplate mounting surface to the end of the converter hub/snout is consistent. I know it would have been harder to show in Garmon's photos, but it seems that the key functional dimension is the distance from the flexplate moounting surface to the inside splines in the converter.
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There will be a Garmon tranny and TC going in my truck when the time comes.
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I'm way late in this as I just saw it but, holy crap people !! Phil Taylor couldn't be a nicer, more honest stand up guy. To see these former friends in this way is crazy.
I would like to put my vote out for Diesel Performance Converters. I have a Garmon built trans with one of Phil converters. 8200lbs and 11.7 in the 1/4. I also have a ATS billet flex plate and have for years. There's several good, hard passes and several long road miles on Phil converter since it was installed and I've yet to have any problems. No overheating, no slipping...etc. I have had other tranny issues but, never TQ related. One issue I've seen a few time and encounter it myself is the spacer plate that's on a stock flexplate. That can not be use when using a billet plate. These tranny thread always go bad in one way or another. It is the internet so, just keep that it mind. |
Yes TY... My old DPC converter worked Awesome too...
That's the point..It's not all of them....Just a bad run of them... IT HAPPENS!! we know this about every business and products... But once the BOOM hits soon...Even you will have to agree... It just Is what is IS...Nothing more...Nothing Less... |
Dang auto guy's might have the clutch guy's beat when it comes to drama, lol JK
its not what your competition say's, but what your customers say's that counts. |
It doesn't matter to me what comes out Dave, Phil is a friend. The man is trying to make a honest living and I know has many TQ's out there with many happy customers. IF, there were some issues.... like you said, that happens. Hell, look how many times you've broke your trans and it's a Garmon build ! Things happen and I saw no reason at all for names to be drug through the mud. I'm sure Phil doesn't wake up in the morning thinking.... how will I screw someone today. Seems to me, there's plenty of room for everyone on the diesel parts,trans,build ship.
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can we all get on the same page, the abreviation for Torque Converter is TC not TQ
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now that i read my post it is pretty funny for many reasons not to mention the irony that everyone calls me TC! lol
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The fact that DTT is having issues narrows it down to the DPC converter or DPC converter aggravated by thick billet flexplates.
Am I right or am I right? |
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I have not dealt with anyone in this thread except DTT but I can say that my TC and flexplate hasn't given me any issues since March. I mention March because I ordered my TC in early Feb and got it around the end of Feb or early March, that seems to be around the same timeframe of the failures referenced in this thread seemed to cease. The TC I received looks just like the new units from Garmon, same black paint and even the rubber hub cover was yellow.
Is there a difference in the two TC's? If not, who manufactured them? I have been satisfied with the performance thus far so whoever made it did a good job IMO. |
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Have you talked to the OP? Have you seen the stamp on the converter? Are you really SURE?? Post up wether you are 100% sure Will... So when it goes south, we can revisit this... |
Yes we r and can prove it
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Well, obviously this thread has had alot of twists and turns along the way. There has been alot of mudslinging, name calling, & even more accuzations in both directions.....one camp saying its the garmon VB`s theother saying its a manufacturing mistake. So with all of the confussion this thread has created for us the little people who work our azz`s off & struggle at times probably just to pay some bills & in there somewhere we try to make some extra side money to put towards some go fast goodies for our toys. I guess what i`m trying to say is when we ( myself included ) finally spend some of that hard earned money we make sure that what we are buying is the best thhat we can afford as most of us cant afford to keep throwing money at our trucks, nor do we have sponsors giving us parts when they fail. So when a part does fail & lets face it it happens to everyone it SUX because in some cases maybe we couldn`t really afford to the upgrade in the first place & now its going to cost even more to "fix" it again....... we have all been there ....right.
SO here is my little contribution/situation i have been going thru with these two companies & after reading this maybe it will help shed a little more truth to the situation from someone ( me ) that has zero affiliation with either party. Lets start back in early May of this year...... i had the apply band break in my stock trans ( other than an HTS VB & a TCS billet single ) so after weighing my options i called Jamie @ CPP and ordered the suncoast extreme rebuild kit, a suncoast billet input & a suncoast billet flex plate. I figured after my local trans builder got done with it i would have a pretty stout trans at a slightly cheaper cost than getting a complete trans from one of the "big 3 " Suncoast, Garmon, Georand. So my local trannie guy rebuild the trans with all the suncoast billet goodies i had bought & installed them right along side my HTS VB & TCS billet single. everyone still with me here....sorry i know its long but its worth it i promise you. :thumbsup: At this point i am still in dis belief at the amount of money i just shelled out on parts & labor oh & not to mention the lost income from not being able to work for this whole time...:banghead: but i only wanted to do this once & i felt i had done a good job to that point. Ok its all back together and i quickly realize now with all of this new found power i was able to overpower the poor little single disk converter.... :banghead: So back on the phone i went to CPP & spoke with Jamie about his reccomendation for a converter...he highly recommended DPC, i called DPC & spoke to Phil myself about my truck/set-up & his recomendations. He strongly suggested his triple disk for my set up. I have to say that i dont know Phil from no where & he was very nice to deal with. I ordered the DPC converter from CPP & within a week or so i was able to get the money to pay my mechanic to tear the trans back out of my truck now for the 2nd time to install Phils converter & a mag deep pan. To say i was excited would be an understatement as i finally felt that my trans issues were over & i could move on to start paying off the trans expenses to this point. Well.....it would have been nice if thats how it worked out but as my luck would have it....i wasn`t done yet. My first impression was man this thing is awesome but for one reason or another the trans temps seemed way outta line. I kinda chalked it up to a tight trans a triple disk....blah, blah, blah...what do i know im not a tranns or TC guy, im a carpenter. So i did ask a good friend of mine who is a member on here & who is very awar of my whole trans saga about the temps & he pretty much told me that they were higher than he ever see`s in his built trans. After a couple more days of frustration out of complete confusion as to why this would be happening to a completely brand new trans i decided to call & talk to Phil about it & see what he thought. He advised me to call my VB maker...in my case HTS. After talking with HTS they informed me that it definetaly was not a vb issue i was experiancing. Phil was going to try & reach out for me to some of his trans guys to try & find a possible solution for me but i didn`t hear back from him. Just to clarify for everyone i was seeing temps cruising the highway of 180-190 * not too bad right...well as soon as i would stop at a traffic light the temps would quickly go to 240+ and i found myself having to always put the truck in neutrel at traffic lights to keep temps from going any higher & driving around town with the O/D off just to try & get it into lock up faster so as to try & keep the temps below the 200* mark. The only time the temps would come down to an almost acceptable level was while in lock up. After another couple days of being completely pist off about what was starting to feel like a complete waste of my hard earned money & time & not getting any answers or solutions to my issue i called Garmon Diesel as to my knowledge Jeff installed & sold the very same converter that i had in my truck. This would have been mid-late June after explaining my situation he advised me that i have a flow problem & it sounded as though it my be a clearance issue between the input & TC and that i should remove the tranns/tc & give a visual inspection & get a measurement of the inside of my tc height....thingy. Well needless to say i was outta time, money & patiance & pulling the trans to "look" at it was not an option, i thanked Jeff for his time & didn`t give anything he said another thought as i wasn`t in any position to lose more time & money on this POS. Until about 3 weeks later when the trans temps got even worse & now to top it all off it was beginning to slip......WTF this F`n POS tranny....you know how it goes.....:rof So at this time i figured it was something my trans builder had done & he quickly pointed out to me that i didn`t have heat issues with my old single disk...:banghead: it wasn`t until the new tc went in that my problems began. Being Totally sick to my stomach at this time i called Jeff back and talked to him about getting a build trans from him as i have always heard good about his trans & the other 2 big names but i felt comfortable talking with him on the phone as compared to the others so thats where i was spending my money ( that i didn`t have ) so i was all set to place the order for the trans when he asked what i had for a converter. i told him a planned on using my brand new dpc converter & it took Jeff a few minutes of hemming & hauling until he told me about the heat issues that he had been having with them & that he & Phil had gone seperate ways. Jeff suggested his new TC to go along with his trans. After alot more disgust on my part about the things i was hearing & the ever growing knot in my stomach i ordered a complete brand new trans/tc set-up from him because at this point i didnt know if it was something internal that my trans builder had done or if it was in fact a defective TC. The time finally came where my trans was coming out AGAIN ( more money ) so i could install the new unit & after removal of my old trans i pulled the TC off the shaft & set everything aside.... installed the new unit, went for a test drive & now after almost 3 monthes i could finally smile again & put my eyes back on the road instead of staring at my trans gauge all the time. Once i returned from the test drive my mechanic pointed down inside my old tc ( dpc unit ) and it appeared to me & my mechanic & his helper that there were grooves worn into the end of the turbine hub. http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/w...Charr/DPC2.jpg Had i realized what was going to become of this whole situation between the two parties i would have taken better pics but all i had at the time was my camera phone. Anyway Jeff called a day or two later to see how the new trans was working & i mentioned to him what i found in the tc. He mentioned that what i was seeing is caused by a tc that was built to tall. Fast foward a bit.... i called CPP explained to him my situation with the tc issue since i bought it from him ( directly) i wanted to go about trying to get a refund for my tc in the proper way. Jamie contacted Phil & to mine & Jamie`s surprise Phil wanted me deal with me directly. ok no problem so i called him explained the situation expressed to him that i wanted a refund for what i felt was a defective tc. After explaining to me that it was possible that the input was rubbing the hub & that its possible one may have slipped outta the shop not being machined properly he asked that i send the converter back to him. In another conversation with him a day or so later he asked if i was running a billet flex plat....well yes i am i told him its a suncoast. He then informed me that the issue i was experiancing was due to the flexplate & if i had been running a stock plate i wouldn`t have had this issue.....:spank: Who buys a triple disk, billet input & leaves the stock flexplate?????? not me apparently. He then told me that he would in fact refund me my money...... which he did do :thumbsup: in fact he gave me back my full retail amount that i had paid for it not dealer cost & i Thank You Very Much Phil for doing so. He then called me after receiving my old dpc tc an dexplained to me that there was nothing wrong with it at all, that my heat issue was due to something else.....:confused013: This is what i know.... i saw wear marks inside my DPC tc, i was experiancing much higher than normal trans temps after the converter install, i installed a brand new trans & converter again & i now have normal trans temps again. Did i order a Garmon trans & converter ....yes i did when i had no other choice because i was outta local options & quite frankly he is the closest of the big three & he has a great track record with his trans & customer service. Both of which are important to me. Does this mean that im on hear as a Garmon cheerleader...no i`m not. He helped advise me of a possible problem with my old setup that once again consisted of Suncoast, HTS VB, & a TCS tc. & i`m just glad that i am now able to enjoy my truck again. Do i think Phil is a bad guy....absolutely not. Like i said he did refund me 100% retail for my converter even though he feels there was nothing wrong with it....im not sure i agree with him on that but we dont have to. He has his tc back & i got my tc money back....its a long way from the cost of a the second trans that i had to buy due to a deffective tc ( in my opinion ) but i wasnt looking for anything more than the tc money back & being able to enjoy my truck again. Maybe some where in this novel that is my tranny saga the everyday joe may be able to come to there own conclusion as to whats going on without all the other BS clouding it all up. Sorry its so long, just wanted everyone to get a real world Joe`s experiance to compare. whew i need a drink.:rof |
I just happened to be coming through town and stopped by Phil's shop for a visit the day your torque converter came in. Now, let me say, I was not the only person there. When Phil cut open the converter, there was no evidence of rubbing anywhere. To the credit of your tranny builder, the inside of the coverter was holding and looked brand new. I'm not sure what you are trying to show in the picture, but the truth comes out when the converter is cut open and my friend...yours was perfect. Sorry you had a problem, but it wasn't from that. Glad you got it fixed and are happy with what you have.
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well how about that for timimg then huh...
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Like i said i`m not rubbing phils nose in it...he took care of me even though he didn`t feel there was aproblem & i applaud him for that...but maybe just maybe sometimes in business the "profesional" tries to make the patron feel at ease by telling one there was nothing wrong. maybe ....:confused013: i may not be a TC/tranny guy but i know what i saw & what others in the shop saw. i`ll leave it at that. obviuosly you saw what appeared to you to be a perfect tc...ok great..... i know what my symptons were & the timeline of them as they took place. I am also glad that i can finally move on from my trans issues....hopefully for good. |
dzlmky.... i should have asked this first......are you referring to the DPC converter or the TCS converter that was sent back as a core.?
I know the DPC converter was holding well...heck it had less than 2k miles on it.....it was the heat that was the issue. |
Phil is the man! He didn't even ask questions about refunding the customer, just offered to make it right. Thumbs up to Phil!
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Jamie you have a pm.
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Man there's no point in goin on with them about it .. A good company will admit when at fault and take care of the issue and the customer, not blame the issue on everything and anything else they can ... I mean I think it's great they took care off you and gave you ur money back but when one of his lil girlfriends comes at you like he just did about the issue that's just bad business and making them look worse. "there was an issue o well you live an learn fix it make it better and move on":thumbsup: |
I have used DPC in all my builds, with billet flexplates and have not had any failures or complaints. Phil has served me and my customers VERY well.
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Well, while we are waiting for the world to implode, why don't you give an explanation for the previous pictures Swole. Its been a while since I asked and still no response. Should we just take that for what its worth? Pretty interesting that someone on comp d made a post stating that their Garmon tranny had the SAME problems as the ones I've seen. No updated seals! I know most of the consumers out there dont understand what the updated seals are, but call any tranny builder and ask them how important they are.
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I hat them dam billet flex plates.. I don't know how many time I had to shave a thou off the center bore to Get Dave's TC to fit correctly..Even the factory center bore at times needs to get clean up to allow the movement necessary for extreme heat created in the TC. Just an Observation. I posted the same thought at ComP.
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i agree TCdiesel...it amazing that no matter what side of the fence your on that there are so many variances between mfg`s parts for the same application. I guess there is a "window" that a part should spec out at & as long is your within that margin everything should be fine.....but like its been stated before, parts are parts...there going to break & there is always human error also.
It just stinks that the waters are obviously very clouded at this point & the little guys like myself are left more confused now than before any of this started. Maybe one day all of this can be settled & everyone can move on and hopefully learn from this and we ( the consumer ) can reap the rewards of better products. Im not just talking about trannies or converters either it should be for all things diesel, this is a relatively small industry made up of hard working men & woman along with alot of very knowledgeable people when it comes to this stuff. In more ways than one we really need all to be able to get along and work together to keep it a strong industry & stop tearing it apart from within. |
Out of the many converters and flexplates I have installed from Dave G, I have never seen a clearance issue. Dave has a guy there that unboxes every flexplate and bolts it to the converter to check it before shipping. And i always check clearance when i get them here also. I have only used the black BD flexplates though, and a couple of the solid ATS ones. I know Dave told me they saw some clearance and balance issues with the gold flexplates a long time ago. But I have never used one of those.
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A - Ashley Black of Blacks Diesel in Adairsville, GA, Your personal vendetta against Me (and obviously Garmon) is the only reason you're posting here with A SUBJECT that has NOTHING to do with the converter issue! B - WHY are you asking me questions about trannies that I Did not build and supposedly have old seals???? I'll tell you why! YOU ARE only bashing due to jealousy and you are pathetic! C - Why are you Not asking Jeff? Why are you calling him? Why are you not driving down here face to face and ask him to his face? Why did you Never ask Jeff to his face the races and shop day when you were here?? Cause you're Pathetic! D - Come up with something that actually has something to do with this topic! Why have You NOT asked Phil about all this proof of the converter issues? Ashley... If you hate me, So be it! You're doing me a favor! I gave you a second chance and could NOT have been nicer to you and your whole crew this last year or so... Shame on me for thinking you'd Grown up!!!! |
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THERE IT IS FOLKS!!! Ashleys TRUE reason for Bashing here ! His beloved tranny sponsor!!! You are making Goerend look bad with your hatred and bashing! |
David I'm not taking sides but isn't that why you are here also? Because of your relationship with jeff? You say people are being pathetic but you are looking pretty crazy right now. I think everyone needs to just step back. Talking crap about products on a diesel forum is one thing, but some of the stuff you are throwing out there is a little much. It's ok for you to be on Jeffs side of this but anyone who sticks up for phil is pathetic? That don't make much sense.
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Its all looking grim, the back and fourth finger pointing like politicians is getting old, I hope you all can work this out and get to the bottom of this... and that seems to be the folks that have spent their hard earned money on trannys. Man up, get together, have some java and work this chit out. Thats my take on it.
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As far as being jealous, why? You or Jeff has nothing that I want or can't have. Neither of you mean anything to me personally, so why would i have a "vendetta" against ya'll. LOL. The only problem I have is that people are being taken for their money and I don't like it and will not stand by and watch it go on and on. I would love for Jeff to come on here and explain why he would sell a full race build and not update seals? I would love to hear why a worn out sun gear was used in a full race build. I would love to hear why a customer would be sold a full race tranny with all billet parts, but then when it gets opened up, oops, someone forgot some billet parts. But you are the face of Garmon transmissions and you are the one that ask for the pictures, so you are the one I and many others expect to hear the answers from. The reason this is coming out again is because there was a personal attack on someone else and I sure as hell wasnt gonna let ya'll throw phil under the bus when you can't even assume and back up your own faults. i have known Phil for a very story period, but from what i have seen, he takes care sof his customers. And thats enough for me. |
With all things, there is a certain amount of BS that the customer must always see through.
Seeing through that BS is the difficult part, especially when you have all the "My Guy" / "His Guy" BS that is going on in this thread. One guy buys / gets his parts from manufacturer A the other from B and anything from anyone else is garbage.....we all know how that works. That's one reason that ANYONE reading this thread needs to read through all the garbage posted from folks that have no hard facts on EITHER part from EITHER manufacturer. Shops, guys that are provided parts, folks that are sponsored by a given company are always going to back that company and bag on the other. FACTS, PICTURES, SPECS!....bring it or STFU! Hearsay, friend of mothers-brothers-sisters-cousin crap doesn't do anything but pollute the waters and muddy these two guys names. All the childish BS that some of you are slinging isn't helping EITHER side, or yourself for that matter. There are plenty of folks that run plenty of both products, with and without issue. The issue HERE AND NOW covers a specific time period and a specific product. All the shoulda, woulda, coulda, cuz my daddy can smash beer cans on his forehead crap is USELESS to the content of the thread and does NOTHING to bring resolution to the problem. If ANYTHING good is to come of this topic, it will be that I'm sure BOTH parties involved are going to be implementing MUCH tighter quality checks. For everyone else that is just acting as a paid mouth, hired gun, "my" shop hitman.....just STFU! Those with half a brain see through the garbage. It doesn't impress anyone. What needs to be seen, and either side is MORE than capable of doing this, is the converters in question need to be placed on a table, side by side, with a stocker, another manufacturer, and one of the ones in question. Lets see the depth from the mounting face to the top of the hub...MEASURED! Lets see the depth, with a dial caliper of the depth from the top of the hub to the deepest part of the stator support splines. This is something easily verifiable. BRING THE NUMBERS OR CUT THE CRAP! |
Mornin Rich
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I'm here to get answers for customers that got shafted. And 13 pages later you still haven't given an answer. It can't get any more clear than that. By not responding to the questions, you think it makes you look like you did nothing wrong and that I am lying about it all. Sorry, but everybody isn't that stupid. |
Didn't mean to hit thanks on that. Fat fingers on an iPhone suck
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Sometimes ya just gotta call what ya see. I'm gonna pull my trans and converter down tomorrow and we'll see what we see. I have parts from both and a flex plate from another company. Is my tranny running hot? Yes....and I have 2 BIG aftermarket coolers on it. Doesn't cool until you hit TC lock-up. Is it making a noise that I don't like? Yes, has since it went back in Was there plenty of standoff from the converter face to the flex plate when I put it in? Yes Has it pulled the trailer and made plenty of passes with out issue? Yes. So we'll see. I'll pull it down tomorrow and take pics of whatever anyone wants to see. |
Awesome, will this be photographed like on the "build up" lots of pics thread?
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I will pull it down on Saturday and, to be FAIR to both parties, I'll bring them to both on Monday. My trans and the converter that I had Phil redo for me (was a SunCoast triple) were done during this time frame. Since then I've put a pretty good beating on it, and other than the heat issue and the noise I'm hearing, the trans has been great. Now, have I seen metal in the trans fluid? YES. I've changed the fluid 3 times since the trans has been in and each time I drain it through a paint strainer and YES, there has been metal each time. As far as both products transfering power, they have both been awesome! Coming off the line at 25 psi with the drag radials on the truck, it's been able to pull the tires, so yeah, it's holding the power. Is there an issue? Possibly, but we'll see. As for ANYONES competance......you won't hear me deny eithers OR the guys that work for them. Hell, Kyle noticed the twisted splines of my billet input that I didn't that would have cost me a bunch of $ otherwise. Neither has recommend or tried to sell parts, and yes I pay for MY parts on MY truck, that weren't necessary even if it would have put money in their pockets. |
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I didn't see it.....the guys running the event standing at the line came to me afterwards...same pass the water pump took a crap.
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So, when I pull this down tomorrow, what pics do folks want to see.
I'll post them as I take them, as I see them. I don't want to burn either company, as I know both and don't have issues with either. I spoke with both when this initially started. I also told Jeff that I DID NOT want any parts covered under any kind of warranty. I explained it quite simply....when you put your stuff on and use it in a competitive manner, you better be prepared to be your own warranty station. The reason for that is simple.....some morons can break ANYTHING! As soon as you say "Warranty" some 'tards see that as a license to beat on things with reckless abandon. I look at it differently. If the vehicle is used AS IT WAS INTENDED, you have a valid issue. If you put it on the track, you just became your own warranty station. I don't expect others to be responsible for me being a retard with my equipment. |